Forum der Vereinigung der Sternfreunde

As well as the previously mentioned BRITE-Cygnus campaign
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4163
I cannot find any recent feedback for two other campaigns I supplied spectra for

WR134,135,137 (The WR134 results are published but WR135,137 remain outstanding)
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4550

WR140 periastron 2016-17
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4451

Does anyone have a more recent update?

Thanks
Robin

The last Teide WR134/135/137 campaign was in 2013 and I repeatedly asked the pros in charge about how to proceed. I must admit that I'm also surprised that the WR 135 and 137 data are still pending. I recommend to send at least some status information once or twice a year to those who invested time and money into this campaingn.
Cheers, Thomas

Dear Robin,

Sorry for the long reply time. I am not a frequent user of this forum. To be honest, this is my first time .
Since I do not speak German, I had to have A LOT of help from people, but finally, I was able to log on and reply to this post.

First I would like to thank you and all the others who participated in this campaign. The data is great and it is a privilege to work with
such a complete dataset.

Coming to the point, after the publication of the data for WR134, I had a summer student reduce the data for WR137. Amazingly,
we found almost no variability. Of course, we were hoping for large-scale changes; that is always easier to discuss in a publication.
However, no variability is also very interesting and rules out a few models for this star. It took me a bit of time to figure out how I would
present this but I finally found an interesting angle.

I am presently working on a paper and I hope to have a draft ready during the current semester. Things are a bit slower when you don't have
a graduate student working on a dataset because professors unfortunately have a lot of other tasks to perform.

As for the WR135 data, they are awaiting a student to take them on.

Bottom line: slow but steady progress.
I hope this answers you interrogations.

Best regards
Nicole St-Louis

Thomas and Robin,

I also invested time and money in 3 projects.

Brite satellites to monitor Cygnus
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4163

Brite satellites to monitor Orion
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4246

Spots on xi Persei
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4060&p=24501&hilit=xi+per+tony+moffat#p24501


They've had years to publish our data !

I appeal to those who asked for contributions to publish the papers soonest, and bring this to a conclusion.

I don't want to loose confidence in pro / am collaboration.

We need to work together.

Regards to all,

Jack

Huggins Spectroscopic Observatory UK

Hello, Jack, I understand your frustration and anger. That's why I also raised this point in Montreal about the last WR campaigns (I'm not involved in the other campaigns). However, the data reduction can take a very long time and sometimes there is simply no student available to do it. I recommend to email the respective professionals and to point out the problem on the part of the amateurs. In dialog you can solve such a problem.

Best, Thomas

Thomas,

I have e mailed them all on a number of occasions over the years, but they just keep coming back with excuses and delays about this and that e.g. I have changed Universities or the student has left to work elsewhere !

Regards,

Jack

Huggins Spectroscopic Observatory UK

Well, that is exactly what happened. Noel is now in Toledo, Emily at GSFC and Tahina in Arizona. That's the way it is! And considering the huge amount of data you simply need a slave who does the reduction job. But again, the issue is in focus and needs time.
Cheers, Thomas

Thomas,

Its now 2019 ! data was submitted to projects 4 / 5 years ago.

Despite endless emails to the pros in charge, we still have nothing to show for our commitment and efforts.

I have now lost confidence in pro / am collaboration.

Nonetheless, wishing you all a happy new year.

Jack

Essex UK

Too bad, Jack, but if you say so.
All the best for 2019! Thomas

Hello Jack, I'm with you!

Siegfried

Siegfried,

I recently received an e mail from another amateur who has the same experience.

Regards,

Jack

Essex UK

I'm a little surprised now. Nicole has presented the state of affairs and it is going ahead. What more do you want? I suggest you alternatively do your own campaigns, reduce the data alone and publish the results. In my experience, however, this will be a real challenge.

Please understand, this is real state-of-the-art science. It takes time and needs careful work. And manpower! I believe the pros are doing what they can to bring our observations to a success.

Hi Thomas,

I know you are saying this "tounge in cheek" but perhaps this is the way forward for amateurs. We are in a data rich, resource poor world now and this is only going to get worse as more automatic surveys start up. There is a lot of data, both professional and amateur sitting on computers waiting to be looked at. Perhaps amateurs do need to move into doing at least an initial analysis of their own data in partnership with professionals. (I do not mind being a slave if it is my own data I am analysing) If we can be guided to what analysis needs to be done, then we might be able to at least identify if there is anything interesting in the data worth doing further work on

Cheers
Robin

Hi Robin, without exaggeration I remember a whole year of data reduction of my only 1 month spectral polarimetric observations in Chile. I worked full time about 50 hours a week and only after that I could start with the data interpretation. And after that I started with the paper. Some seem to underestimate the work for the data of two 4-month campaigns.

I agree, it might be important to learn how to perform at least basic reductions. But that is not the cup of tea for many. In any case, I consider ProAm collaborations as the silver bullet for the future. I find it unfortunate here to pretend that the pros are unreliable towards the amateurs. They are not.
Cheers, Thomas

Hi Thomas

Yes the analysis side is not for everyone but there are amateur teams who already do work in this way though. For example the CBA on cataclysmic variables where they both observe and analyse their photometric data and publish with professional support
https://cbastro.org/
(and where I live, a 1:10 ratio of observing time to analysis time fits in well with the weather!)

I think as amateurs, we do need to be realistic though and accept that not every measurement we make will be interesting, useful or perhaps even looked at by others. Mainly I just do it to enjoy the journey and if something new turns up that is a bonus!

Cheers
Robin

For example for the past couple of years I have been classifying supernovae spectroscopically using the specially designed spectrograph I reported on at the Koln VdS meeting (only a few down to ~mag 17, perhaps 10-15 a year out of the thousands of potential SNe which are now discovered and never confirmed.) Many of them would probably have been classified by professionals eventually but I am the only amateur doing this sort of work and it is good fun competing with some of the world's largest telescopes. As a result I was contacted by Prof Subo Dong of the ASASSN team who now sends me targets he is interested in. (early observations of potential nearby type Ia SNe) Recently one I classified (SN2018oh)
https://wis-tns.weizmann.ac.il/object/2018oh
has added to the controversy over the mechanism of type Ia SNe (merging white dwarfs or an accreting white dwarf binary)
https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... -surprise/
This was an unexpected bonus and it means I get a mention in the papers about this SNe

Cheers
Robin

I am entirely with you, Robin, and like with your track which doesn't exclude certain ProAm contributions. It's great and brings you to a professional working level. As I said, there was a reasonable request from the amateurs to the pros. The pros then (from my point of view sufficiently) described the present delay. If somebody then decides to quit ProAm campaigns I am fine with that (although I feel sad for it) because it is a hobby which should do well. However, I am surprised that the complaints continue even after the delay explanation and I wonder what the alternative could be. From a professional point of view there is non. But I am open for suggestions, of course.
Thomas

Thomas,

I have not quit.

I have invested a lot of time and money in my observatory, this week I just finished upgrading computers, the newest British Telecom home hub with faster fibre optic broadband.

When I studied Astronomy at the Open University, one of my tutors Prof John Zarneki who was a Principal investigator for the Cassini-Huygens mission to Saturn said 'telescope time is a valuable commodity' that stuck with me.

Amateurs are a valuable commodity too, whose telescope time and resources are given freely to projects.

There are not many of us, and big telescopes do not monitor these objects.

Regards,

Jack

Essex UK