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Teide 2013 WR campaign
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Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 26. Mai 2013, 16:52:27 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello Martin and Noel,

now the data of last night are going on the server. I have sorted out all data with defects.
stars: alp Leo, bet Lyr, HD160529, WR134, WR135 and WR137.
auxiliary data: LED and tungsten flats and darks for the 4s-tungsten flat.
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 26. Mai 2013, 20:33:00 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello together,

now the Nova CCD works also in Maxim DL 3. I hope, we will have better results and only few readout defects.
Autor:  Martin Dubs [ 26. Mai 2013, 23:54:56 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello Lothar,

you missed some defects, but no problem, I uploaded the spectra of last night on the FTP server, together with the configuration files. The response overall changes slightly, but for a preview I used the same as the night before (no spectrum of zet Aql available) Here an example of what you get. The difference in slope could be corrected easily if necessary.
There are also some changes in the emission profiles visible! But look for yourself at the fit files.
I am waiting for somebody to show some spectra, would be nice to compare.
The next spectra you can reduce yourself, I add a quick guide for ISIS data reduction. This should be studied also by next teams, so that they can look at their work right away. Sorry that does not work (too large?) I will put it on the FTP server (same folder as the spectra, 20130525)

Please do not forget to rotate the camera slightly, this would allow to extend the range of orders to be reduced.

Regards, Martin

Dateianhänge:
Dateikommentar: WR 134 24 hours apart, same response function
WR134 comparison 24 hours.png
WR134 comparison 24 hours.png [ 9.48 KiB | 25975 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 03:46:01 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello

the Maxim DL 3 works not better then the Nova-software. There are more readout-problems with Maxim DL 3. So we decided to use the SC Nova program this night.

After 6 hours of technical problems (shifting the Shapley lens, vignetting effects, to much to write it here) the FOVIA autoguiding works now and we observe the WR 135 using FOVIA autoguiding. The star image is very stable.

But we have not reached a sharp focussied star image in the FOVIA. Therefore it is a first attempt to use it. But with success we guess.
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 27. Mai 2013, 03:51:02 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Ausgezeichnetes Egebnis, sehr eindrucksvoll!

berthold
Autor:  Filipe Dias [ 27. Mai 2013, 04:08:00 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Good news! If you are using the FOVIA system, you do not need PHD running showing the fiber image during data acquisition. Another interesting thing to test is to use Windows' Task Manager to see the CPU usage of PHD.. If it is using a lot of processor time, avoid using it while science camera is downloading. Try to turn off this to see if readout problems on the science camera continue. If they continue, please find and try a backup USB cable, to see if it is a cable problem.. If the connection is too long, the powered USB extensions are probably needed as they were used in 2008/09.. Using the SC Nova program, does it have an indication on voltage for camera power? is it in a good value? Sorry to keep insisting in the USB possibility, but it is very puzzling to me why this should be happening..


Cheers,

Lothar Schanne wrote:
Zitat:

the Maxim DL 3 works not better then the Nova-software. There are more readout-problems with Maxim DL 3. So we decided to use the SC Nova program this night.

the FOVIA autoguiding works now and we observe the WR 135 using FOVIA autoguiding.
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 05:54:45 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello,

all this night the theme FOVIA is in the foreground.
Only 2 WR stars was to observe with that technique. Because we are not in the focus of FOVIA and the guide stars are very broadend images to hold on its position. A lot to try but few results. :?

For the visibilty of our targets I have produced the annexed graph.

Dateianhänge:
visbility_Objects_20130526.ps [121.08 KiB]
189-mal heruntergeladen
visbility_Objects_20130526.png
visbility_Objects_20130526.png [ 10.79 KiB | 25962 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 06:12:04 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Teide 2013 WR campaign
Zitat:
Good news! If you are using the FOVIA system, you do not need PHD running showing the fiber image during data acquisition. Another interesting thing to test is to use Windows' Task Manager to see the CPU usage of PHD.. If it is using a lot of processor time, avoid using it while science camera is downloading. Try to turn off this to see if readout problems on the science camera continue. If they continue, please find and try a backup USB cable, to see if it is a cable problem.. If the connection is too long, the powered USB extensions are probably needed as they were used in 2008/09.. Using the SC Nova program, does it have an indication on voltage for camera power? is it in a good value? Sorry to keep insisting in the USB possibility, but it is very puzzling to me why this should be happening..
Hello Filipe,

We observed also that the read out problems are caused by interferencing of read out and other prgramms like PHD, which needs CPU time. Therefore we avoid to do something with the laptop during read out. So we have this night only few read out losses (it's only a raw guess).
We will think tomorrow about possibilities to avoid the CPU overload during read out of pictures.
The voltage of CCD power supply is ok (voltage is monitored).
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 06:18:00 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
In case of interest: The visibilty graph is produced by a program "staralt" of the IAC. To find here:
http://catserver.ing.iac.es/staralt/

You can it use also on your own site.

Staralt is a program that shows the observability of objects in various ways: either you can plot altitude against time for a particular night (Staralt), or plot the path of your objects across the sky for a particular night (Startrack), or plot how altitude changes over a year (Starobs), or get a table with the best observing date for each object (Starmult).
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 06:46:21 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
In case of interest:

Other graphs for our objects.

Dateianhänge:
OptimumObservingTime_objects.gif
OptimumObservingTime_objects.gif [ 23.94 KiB | 25953 mal betrachtet ]
skytrack_objekte.gif
skytrack_objekte.gif [ 12.78 KiB | 25953 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Noel Richardson [ 27. Mai 2013, 16:57:51 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hi all,

For Teide, I just looked at the HD160529 (supplemental target; LBV) data from the other night, and it is gorgeous. Even a single exposure is beautiful. Please limit the exposure time to 2x600s so that we don't use too much time on this star. Alternate each night between this and HD 316285 for the supplemental targets (you can do the same exposure for that star; 2x600 s). We don't need as high of a S/N for HD 316285 as 160529, and the brightness difference, the large emission lines make this a reasonable exposure.

From the visibility plots, here's a suggestion for the observations at Teide.

After about an hour and a half, the WR stars are at an elevation above 20deg. Start observing them then, but get the telluric standard (Regulus) before that. If there is some extra time early on, then you could observe other stars that are available. If anyone has suggestions for this early in the night, please let us know - the infamous "spring hole" for massive stars in the north this time of year seems to be showing up...

Great work, Team 1 - keep it up!
Autor:  Bernard Heathcote [ 27. Mai 2013, 17:04:54 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Noel,

I?m just finishing my first run, from central Melbourne, on HD160529 and HD316285 with my 0.28m scope.

Cheers,
Bernard


From: Noel Richardson (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:57 AM
To: fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
Subject: [fg-spek] Re: Teide 2013 WR campaign




Hi all,

For Teide, I just looked at the HD160529 (supplemental target; LBV) data from the other night, and it is gorgeous. Even a single exposure is beautiful. Please limit the exposure time to 2x600s so that we don't use too much time on this star. Alternate each night between this and HD 316285 for the supplemental targets (you can do the same exposure for that star; 2x600 s). We don't need as high of a S/N for HD 316285 as 160529, and the brightness difference, the large emission lines make this a reasonable exposure.

From the visibility plots, here's a suggestion for the observations at Teide.

After about an hour and a half, the WR stars are at an elevation above 20deg. Start observing them then, but get the telluric standard (Regulus) before that. If there is some extra time early on, then you could observe other stars that are available. If anyone has suggestions for this early in the night, please let us know - the infamous "spring hole" for massive stars in the north this time of year seems to be showing up...

Great work, Team 1 - keep it up!





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Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 17:39:34 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello

renamed and controlled data of last night uploading now. See our server.
2 stars guided with FOVIA: WR 135 and WR 137.
Auxiliary stars and test stars: alp Leo,
And new Flats (Tungsten and LED) because we had changed the F#.
Autor:  thierry Garrel [ 27. Mai 2013, 17:41:57 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hello Team 1,I had access to data from Saturday night and comparing to mine same date, thanks to Martin. I have to say that the spectra looks great with an impressive snr. You did a good job while it was manually guided. I know what it was  as i had to guide the IAC80 for one night last time. Now you fixed the autoguiding it will be better and you will have more time to watch the starry night over the Teide.
Thanks for your fruitful effort.
Cheers
Thierry



2013/5/27 Lothar Schanne <fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)>
Zitat:
In case of interest:

Other graphs for our objects.



Herzliche Grüße / best regards

Lothar

www.astrospectroscopy.eu
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 18:38:21 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Teide 2013 WR campaign
Zitat:
from Saturday night and comparing to mine same date, thanks to Martin. I have to say that the spectra looks great with an impressive snr.
Hello Thierry,

can you show here your spectra? It's interesting for us.
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 27. Mai 2013, 18:55:54 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Screen of the aquisition laptop
Here some visual impressions of our FOVIA autoguiding experiments. :shock:

Dateianhänge:
Dateikommentar: Screen of the CCD aquisition laptop
K800_P1070396.JPG
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Dateikommentar: statistics of the FOVIA star picture hold
K800_P1070397.JPG
K800_P1070397.JPG [ 79.9 KiB | 25920 mal betrachtet ]
Dateikommentar: Main screen of telescope control and object list
K800_P1070399.JPG
K800_P1070399.JPG [ 90.67 KiB | 25920 mal betrachtet ]
Dateikommentar: The guiding star of FOVIA, bad focus, but FOVIA works in this case (WR137)
K800_P1070403.JPG
K800_P1070403.JPG [ 72.66 KiB | 25920 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 27. Mai 2013, 20:32:46 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello,



We would be rather interest of some 1D spectra reduced by Noel........

Cheers berthold
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 27. Mai 2013, 20:33:58 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello,

here my greatest compliments to Lothar and Daniel. Without Lothars great carefulness and circumaspection, it would be nearly impossible to start this campaign . Daniel has a lot of surprising ideas....and.... he is able to realize them at once! Also very important for this campaign which is rather more complicated as the first one. Also thanks to Otmar Stahl who helped me once more to reduce the spectra at once with midas.



Cheers berthold
Autor:  Noel Richardson [ 27. Mai 2013, 22:56:11 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
I'm trying to work on them, but have been busy with several visitors over the past week and another coming tomorrow. It is my hope to have a reduction pipeline for UdeM running in the next few days. Right now, I need to work on wavelength calibration, which is always the longest part of the reduction.
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 27. Mai 2013, 23:49:15 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello,

ok,that's your decision.....but please remember the first team is the only one how can change anything at the eshelspectrograph, if you would mean it could be necessary.

There are only 3 days left, then we will leave the observatory. And I do not allow anyone , to change anything at the eShelspectrograph.


cheers
berthold
Autor:  Noel Richardson [ 28. Mai 2013, 00:15:12 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Berthold,

From looking at the data, the only thing that could change are exposure
times. The signal to noise and quality look fine so far.

Cheers,

Noel
Zitat:
Hello,

ok,that's your decision.....but please remember the first team is the only
one how can change anything at the eshelspectrograph, if you would mean it
could be necessary.

There are only 3 days left, then we will leave the observatory. And I do
not allow anyone , to change anything at the eShelspectrograph.


cheers
berthold
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 28. Mai 2013, 03:09:44 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello Noel,

in my (only) opinion it is nearly impossible to say something accurate of the echellespectra only by viewing and regarding the 2D spectra........but perhaps it could be that the professionals can do so.......I can not do so...

cheers
berthold
Autor:  Noel Richardson [ 28. Mai 2013, 03:18:04 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hi Berthold,

I am working on the reduction right now. I extracted,but didn't wavelength calibrate the first night of data with the target stars (previous post). The spectra look fine, and based on my guess of the dispersion, it should be easy to get a S/N of 200/Angstrom. I'll try to post something tonight, assuming I get it completed.

It is a long process to get to know echelle data and what is good and bad. I've gotten several hundred before, and so I am a little more optimistic as to how to do it and make it work well. Seeing the first look spectra show me that it will be easy to get high-quality data from the spectra Team 1 has obtained. Seeing Martin's reduction helps with that too.

Noel
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 28. Mai 2013, 04:05:57 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello together,

the last change of our fiber injection system (movement of 6 mm into the FOVIA box) is succesful: We can now use the FOVIA in routinely runs. The guiding is much better then manual control . Accuracity about +- 0.5 " +- 0.4".

We think we have now achieved the main goals of the mission of team 1.

The remained problem is:
Read out defects of the images. About 7% of the images have read out defects and cannot be used. We don't find the reasons of that behaviour of the CCD. It's not optimal but that's life. :wink:
Autor:  Noel Richardson [ 28. Mai 2013, 04:18:16 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
I am very pleased with the data, after looking at it just now (although my computer isn't wanting to assign a wavelength solution to the data - grumble)...

As a reminder, I don't necessarily think that readout errors make the data useless. I think this will be a somewhat easy fix for us at UdeM, we just need to know if there is an error.

Please use the logsheet we provided on the website, and note in the comments if there is an error, and we will try to correct it as we reduce the data.

Thanks for the hard work Team 1 and everyone else!
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 28. Mai 2013, 05:44:59 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello campaign activists

I've uploaded some instructions on the server in the folder 20130527. Please have a look and give comments. Understandable? You need more or another informations?
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 28. Mai 2013, 09:36:58 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hello

now in a few days I have to leave the observatory. I am very very astonished about the absolutly high precision of the optical and mechanical aspekt of the IAC 80.

Many thanks to all the friendly and very patient operators as they are our very nice and friendly PILAR ( the operator for our first two nights) the friendly and patient other operators SERGIO and ENECO. I excuse me but the names of the other helpfull people I do not know or I forgot them. All my thanks also to they.

But especially I have to mention JESUS!! Without his very competent help at the first day of our campaign this campaign could not being started!

Also many thanks to the directors Alex and Johan ( very important of course but more in the background....-:)

all the best to all

Berthold
Autor:  Bernard Heathcote [ 28. Mai 2013, 15:54:37 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
I'm finishing my second night (eShel) on the two supplementaries (HD160529 and HD316285 but its not been easy due to passing clouds.

Cheers, Bernard
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 28. Mai 2013, 17:59:56 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
The instructions on the server, folder 20130527, is now completed with the manual of the telecope.
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 28. Mai 2013, 20:15:42 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Please do not wonder the large amount of star spectras outside our observation program, like alp Leo or bet Lyr. With this stars we focused the FOVIA and testet other things.
Autor:  Lothar Schanne [ 28. Mai 2013, 20:39:41 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
The oberservation data of last night are on the server. Also some flats of today.
Autor:  Martin Dubs [ 29. Mai 2013, 00:10:55 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
I fully agree with Lothar on the value of the additional spectra. In particular in the first phase of the campaign the spectrograph in combination with the telescope has to be tested thoroughly. Unfortunately some tests of the echelle could not be done earlier, partly becouse of the terrible weather in middle europe before the campaign start.

After the first week the equipment is running, most problems have been sorted out and fully reduced spectra are produced. Once the remaining problems are sorted out, nothing except bad weather will prevent us from producing spectra in good quality at a higher rate than now.

The spectrograph is running as expected, the only problem is the signal of the calibration channel. I will try to explain this in a few words.
The flats are produced by sending the light of a tungsten halogen lamp or a ThAr HCL through a fiber into the guide unit at the focus of the telescope, where a mirror can be inserted into the light path and the calibration light sent through the fiber to the spectrograph. Ideally the calibration light and the telescope have similar f/ratios, therefore the light path of the fiber and the star are identical.
As a result the response curve which is calculated from the ratio of starlight flux / tungsten flux gives a fairly smooth curve as a function of wavelength. Both the blaze function and the detector response should cancel out and the result for the Shelyak echelle hav a shape similar to the one below, taken from the ISIS guide (typical eShel response).
http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/isis/eshel/tuto1.htm
measured with the same spectrograph and CCD
Going through the same calculation with the data from IAC, with the replaced lamp for the flat and zet Aql for the calibration star we get the following response curve (see below), quite different. Each wave represents a single order, the orders have been joined carefully. To everybody in echelle spectroscopy this is a well known problem, what is disturbing is the amplitude of these waves, not normally seen in an correct working echelle.
Having built an echelle and several other spectrographs I came across this problem also, so I checked several causes for these waves.
- misalignment of the spectrograph optics;
- poor background subtraction;
- poor alignment of the feeding of the calibration light into the spectrograph fiber.
The first cause I cannot completely rule out but think it is unlikely, anyway there could not be done anything about it now.
The second cause I checked thoroughly with the spectra taken so far and think I can exclude it.
Remains the third cause. By chance I had this problem about two years ago, with the same guiding unit as installed at the IAC. The culprit was the moving mirror, which was pushed out of its correct angle by an unknown cause.
Correcting only the slow variations of the response curve I got a spectrum of gam Cas which had almost the same waves as the response curve of the present data (see below).
Now you may say: so what. After all good spectra can be produced anyway by using this somewhat complicated function or the spectra can be reduced without using the flat files only for order extraction.
Correct, but there is another point I would like to make.
The calibration fiber is used not only for the flat but also for the ThAr calibration reference. And here comes in another point I found out some time later. When I made a careful wavelength comparison between FeAr lines of the calibration lamp and terrestrial H2O lines in the H alpha region I noticed reproducible, systematic calibration errors of up to 1 km/sec with a well aligned spectrograph, which I could not explain initially. I found the solution at the OHP at the T193, where the following reference was pointed out to me by the astronomer in charge.
http://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0794
There radial velocity errors of the order of meter/sec are discussed, however the instrument is quite a bit more advanced than our echelle, using state of the art mode scrambling. A rough estimate of the errors for my echelle, using the same lens as the Shelyak echelle showed that this was the solution for my calibration errors as well.
With a poorly aligned calibration feed I would estimate that the error could be considerably larger than what I measured. This would lead to additional difficulties if you cannot rely on the calibration produced by the ThAr lines. This error again can be corrected, by feeding in the calibration as is with a calibration produced by feeding in the light exactly on axis and measuring the calibration errors, later rescaling the individual spectra of each order.
The other solution would be to replace or fix the guiding unit, with the problem that fixing it has some risk of changing it for the worse. I could offer my guide unit on loan, but the problem is that the setup team is leaving in a few days and the following crews should do some spectroscopy on WR stars.
The third possibility is to ignore this possibility of error and work with the data as they come out, already very good.
I thought I bring this point into the discussion, with the intent to improve the quality of the spectra. We may not have to resolve it right away, but maybe check if it affects data quality. After all, also amateurs want to work to highest standards, as far as their means allow.

Martin Dubs

Dateianhänge:
Dateikommentar: blue: my reponse with bad calibration alignment, Planck not corrected
red: final spectrum, pink: UVES reference
my response blue flat.jpg
my response blue flat.jpg [ 120.41 KiB | 25775 mal betrachtet ]
Dateikommentar: response measured at IAC
resp.png
resp.png [ 6.66 KiB | 25775 mal betrachtet ]
Dateikommentar: typical eShel response
typical eShel response.PNG
typical eShel response.PNG [ 8.18 KiB | 25775 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 00:56:39 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hi Martin! Very nice and helpful analysis. I entirely agree with the scrampling problem, also known as photometric shift (although I did not know this interesting Boisse et al. paper). What we could try to do is the following: The CAOS group described a method how to scrample the signal:

http://spectroscopy.wordpress.com/2009/ ... al-fibres/

In 5.1. they describe scrambing gain and in 5.2 they say

5.2 Scrambling gain measurements

Laboratory tests show an increase of the scrambling gain with the length of the fibre. It also increases when the fibre is submitted to bends. A fibre with a core of 60 μm diameter, illuminated with a spot of 50 μm, a beam input of F/2.5, a length of 3 m and free of strong bends shows a scrambling gain of G = 120. When this fibre is forced to follow a small bend in such a way that the FRD increases of 20%, the scrambling gain jumps up to 500. On the other side when a 600 μm fibre of 3 m, Injected with a F/3 beam, a spot of 250 μm and free of bends, the gain is G = 150. When submitted to follow a serpent shape with bends of 15 mm radius giving a FRD of 20, the scrambling gain boost up 3000!

Now, we could in principle easily introduce additional fiber stress by bending it. But: With respect to Berthold's experience with the Shelyak fiber I hesitate to bend our new fiber from Daniel Sablowski because I do not know its mechanical stability.

Daniel, what do you think about this? Could you perform such a stress test by bending one of your fibers in Potsdam?

I do not want to make this test at Teide. :)

Thomas
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 01:01:37 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
... and before we seriously jump onto this scrambling train I would like to know from our Montreal PIs if we really have to consider this problem for our case.

T
Autor:  Martin Dubs [ 29. Mai 2013, 01:23:10 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hi Thomas,

my intention was not to introduce scrambling, but just to align the fiber guide unit, in particular the insertion of the calibration light into the pinhole to the spectrograph fiber, with the intent of simplifying data reduction. In case anybody is interested I have some labnotes from what I did (measure F/ratio at different parts of the optical train, measure alignment etc.). But I do not know how to do it from here and I do not want to disturb the process of getting spectra or disturb the setup, which is best left alone since it is running smoothly now. Just thinking what can be improved for next time maybe.

Have a good time in Teneriffa,

Martin
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 02:03:48 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
OK, I got it, Martin. Well, I can not add anything reasonable to your remarks. And you are right again, we better do not touch our present (delicate) setup. But again, good point for the data reduction in Montreal.

Cheers, Thomas
Autor:  Bernard Heathcote [ 29. Mai 2013, 10:39:15 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Where is the contribution from the many amateurs (apart from Teide) that said they would join in the WR Campaign? On the Montreal server, where there are 25 'accounts' for the contributors, as far as I can see there is only data from Teide (plus what I've contributed on the two supplementary targets). I hope more amateurs will get involved.

Cheers, Bernard
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 29. Mai 2013, 11:32:18 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
You are right, Bernhard, I think exactly the same ! Except from you, Thierry , Noel, Tony, Martin Dubs , Thomas.E, nobody of the other members said as far as I see only one word in the context to this efforts we do........rather strange.


Here we have cloudy sky at moment.....


Ok , we will leave the Teide tomorrow or at friday morning. ..We will see what will happen then......:-)


Do you could create some spectra of one of the stars of interest,,,,,,,?




Berthold

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.05.2013 um 09:39 schrieb Bernard Heathcote <fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)>:

Zitat:
Where is the contribution from the many amateurs (apart from Teide) that said they would join in the WR Campaign? On the Montreal server, where there are 25 'accounts' for the contributors, as far as I can see there is only data from Teide (plus what I've contributed on the two supplementary targets). I hope more amateurs will get involved.

Cheers, Bernard



Quicquid Nitet Notandum
Autor:  Filipe Dias [ 29. Mai 2013, 11:49:57 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hello Team 1,
While it is cloudy, can I suggest you attempt downloading images from the camera, experimenting with uses or non-uses of PHD software, and observing CPU load, to try to understand if there appears to be a link or not between the errors and the choice of software, or procedures?..
you could just download images without any other software running, to see if the problem persists with the same intensity, for instance...
Zitat:
Here we have cloudy sky at moment.....
Autor:  Bernard Heathcote [ 29. Mai 2013, 12:02:14 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Berthold,

Unfortunately the WR targets only rise to 16-17 deg above my northern horizon and are invisible to me because of buildings, so I am limited to HD160529 and HD316285 which do go near to my zenith. I have recorded their eShel spectra, and uploaded it (to WR201306), for 27th and 28th May but still have not found the time to process the data. When I have I will post them to the forum.

Congratulations on a job well done at Teide and preparing the road for those that will follow you.

Cheers, Bernard
Autor:  thierry Garrel [ 29. Mai 2013, 12:19:02 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Berthold,

It's difficult to blame others amateurs as primary targets are faint, for amateurs, and exposure requirements relatively short. If we look for 1% variation in the lines of interest as said before by Nöel during the del ori campaign, i'm not sure that even well experimented observers are able to maintain such consistency in their date to date data.
But the good news is that The Teide is now producing high quality data, thank to your efforts, and i'm not sure there is room or needing  for amateur ground data.


Have a good trip back, well if you can ever be back from such magnificent places.


Thierry
Ps: I put my observations here, waiting for an account on Montréal FTP.  http://gabalou.canalblog.com/archives/2 ... 77987.html



2013/5/29 Bernard Heathcote <fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)>
Zitat:
Hi Berthold,

Unfortunately the WR targets only rise to 16-17 deg above my northern horizon and are invisible to me because of buildings, so I am limited to HD160529 and HD316285 which do go near to my zenith. I have recorded their eShel spectra, and uploaded it (to WR201306), for 27th and 28th May but still have not found the time to process the data. When I have I will post them to the forum.

Congratulations on a job well done at Teide and preparing the road for those that will follow you.

Cheers, Bernard



Quicquid Nitet Notandum
Autor:  Robin Leadbeater [ 29. Mai 2013, 12:33:36 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Bernard,

I am following what is happening intently but have nothing to add at the moment. My excuse is there are no dark hours here at 55N for the next 2 months but I plan to start after that and extend monitoring beyond when the IAC80 observations stop in Sepetember.

Cheers
Robin

----- Original Message ----- From: Bernard Heathcote (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
To: fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:39 AM
Subject: [fg-spek] Re: Teide 2013 WR campaign



Where is the contribution from the many amateurs (apart from Teide) that said they would join in the WR Campaign? On the Montreal server, where there are 25 'accounts' for the contributors, as far as I can see there is only data from Teide (plus what I've contributed on the two supplementary targets). I hope more amateurs will get involved.

Cheers, Bernard



Quicquid Nitet Notandum
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 12:51:07 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Zitat:
Except from you, Thierry , Noel, Tony, Martin Dubs , Thomas.E, nobody of the other members said as far as I see only one word in the context to this efforts we do........rather strange.
Wait a minute, Berthold, you are quite wrong with your statement! First, keep in mind that the majority of the amateurs are already involved in the Teide campaign and they spend at least 1000 Euro each. This is an enormous amount of money for a student/schoolboy, ok! Don't underestimate their contribution. Second, not saying anything in the forum does not necessarily mean that others do not mind. I know that many read our discussion but hesitate to contribute because they are no expert. Third, we already knew during our campaign planning that amateur contributions from other sites are not so numerous. That was the baseline and we can only appreciate data from volunteer work. Forth, as you know, our target parameters are quite demanding and we could only hope from the beginning for support data. So, don't complain as long as you do not know the details behind external observations.

Thierry is right! Don't blame our amateur volunteers but hope for their contributions. I believe they do their best to support us.

And finally: I believe that we still do a kind of pioneer work at Teide (Mons 2009, delta Sco 2011, WR 2013). Many only read about them. I believe, making not involved amateurs excited in science is already a big achievement by all of us.

Cheers, Thomas
Autor:  Nelson Viegas [ 29. Mai 2013, 13:56:20 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hello all,

Thomas is right. I'm one of those persons who is delighted in following this new adventure, but alas, I cannot contribute actively because I'm no expert in the subject. I contributed with "myself" on the MONS 2009 campaign, which I was proud to make part of, although I am very discreet and many of the original MONS 2009 campaign persons don't even know or remember me. :-)


Best of luck to this new campaign.


Best regards,
Nelson Viegas



2013/5/29 Thomas Eversberg <fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)>
Zitat:
Zitat: Except from you, Thierry , Noel, Tony, Martin Dubs , Thomas.E, nobody of the other members said as far as I see only one word in the context to this efforts we do........rather strange.

Wait a minute, Berthold, you are quite wrong with your statement! First, keep in mind that the majority of the amateurs are already involved in the Teide campaign and they spend at least 1000 Euro each. This is an enormous amount of money for a student/schoolboy, ok! Don't underestimate their contribution. Second, not saying anything in the forum does not necessarily mean that others do not mind. I know that many read our discussion but hesitate to contribute because they are no expert. Third, we already knew during our campaign planning that amateur contributions from other sites are not so numerous. That was the baseline and we can only appreciate data from volunteer work. Forth, as you know, our target parameters are quite demanding and we could only hope from the beginning for support data. So, don't complain as long as you do not know the details behind external observations.

Thierry is right! Don't blame our amateur volunteers but hope for their contributions. I believe they do their best to support us.

And finally: I believe that we still do a kind of pioneer work at Teide (Mons 2009, delta Sco 2011, WR 2013). Many only read about them. I believe, making not involved amateurs excited in science is already a big achievement by all of us.

Cheers, Thomas
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 29. Mai 2013, 15:19:02 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Teide 2013 WR campaign
Hi Filipe,

the clouds are away!

We tried with and without PHD.......no changes te see. Some times it is ok some times not.........because the CCD don?t work even with my laptop, (this CCD did this ever before the transport toTeide) I am afraid, the readout electronic of the camera may be defect.I think we could not find out it here definitly. I think now, Thomas should install his camera today as long I am on the observatory and I ?ll take my CCD with me at home tomorrow.......this would be the best for all,I think.......

berthold

From: Filipe Dias (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:51 AM
To: fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de (fg-spek-convento@vds-astro.de)
Subject: [fg-spek] Re: Teide 2013 WR campaign



While it is cloudy, can I suggest you attempt downloading images from the camera, experimenting with uses or non-uses of PHD software, and observing CPU load, to try to understand if there appears to be a link or not between the errors and the choice of software, or procedures?.. Fil.
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Berthold Stober wrote:
: Here we have cloudy sky at moment.....






Fil.
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 19:51:23 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Zitat:
Thomas should install his camera today...
This is a misunderstanding. I have no CCD with me. We will stick on the present setup!
Autor:  Thomas Eversberg [ 29. Mai 2013, 20:40:22 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
Hi all! Team 2 has arrived at Teide. Norbert Reinecke as my partner for the next two nights bridges the time untill the arrival of Knud Strandbeck who will be here with me until June 15.

Now we learn all procedures.

Cheers, Thomas
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 29. Mai 2013, 23:30:14 PM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
hello,

now see the spectrum from HD_316285, we should observe.....

berthold



(danke Martin!)

Dateianhänge:
Dateikommentar: 3x10 minutes with the IAC 80 oberservatorio del teide
_hd_316285_20130528_123_full.png
_hd_316285_20130528_123_full.png [ 13.94 KiB | 25685 mal betrachtet ]
Autor:  Knud Strandbaek [ 30. Mai 2013, 00:01:48 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  To Thomas and Nobert!
Hi all! - and specially to Thomas and Nobert!
I will arrive in 2 days and will be very happy to participate!
I too hope all functions are running satisfying!
Good luck!
Best regards from Denmark
Knud :D
Autor:  Berthold Stober [ 30. Mai 2013, 00:07:15 AM ]
Betreff des Beitrags: 
und hier dann der Stern HD 160529.......leider mit vielen Störungen, keine Ahnung woher die herkommen.

berthold

Dateianhänge:
Dateikommentar: wieso hier so viele Störungen drauf sind, ist mir unklar
hd_160529_130527.png
hd_160529_130527.png [ 13.63 KiB | 25676 mal betrachtet ]
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